O&R .33 sparker

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O&R .33 sparker

Postby jerry1927 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:50 am

Help! I have a new O&R .33 with the AdJustamatic ignition. I've tried to run it but the firing of the spark seems to be early. With a fully retarded timer, the engine still fires well before top dead center and won't start by hand flipping. (It tries to chop my finger off!) Is this a common problem? How can I get it to run well, without doing violence to the timer or slot in the bearing? Would installing the older, round timer help?
Thanks.
Jerry
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Postby walt » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:06 pm

I used to run my O&R 23 using an adjustomatic timer with no problems. The TYPE of timer should not be the problem. Someone with recent experience needs to chime in and tell you where the points should be opening and closing. Sounds like there's a problem there.
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O&R 33 sparker

Postby jerry1927 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:47 am

Hi, Walt,
Thanks for your reply. However, my .19, .23, & .29 RVs have never shown this problem, only the .33. I suspect that the bearing slot is too short to permit proper positioning of the timer. I seem to recall that when I retard it a tad more than where it kicks back, the points are held open and it won't fire at all.
I'll keep poking around.
I originally intended to run it at the MECA Expo in Muncie, last year, but had to give it up.
Jerry
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Postby walt » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:33 am

Yeah, very interesting. I've never run one of my 33s on ignition. Will have to look one over one day and see if there's any difference in them and the 23s or 29s. Let us know how things progress, please.
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Postby loucrane » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:51 pm

Jerry,

You mention that your other O&Rs are RV - I presume rear intake, side-port valving instead of front shaft rotary valve? Is the problem 33 also ported this way?

Side-port engines can run either way. Is it possible the timer is for clockwise operation? (Presuming the 33 is also side-port...) Spark timing is biased to match the intended direction of rotation.

I don't have experience with O&R engines, but have seen several at varying distances. I know they were side-port before and shortly after WW2, and mostly front shaft rotary valve into the early/mid 1950's.

If it IS a reverse rotation timer, I don't know what your solution should be, other than to find suitable left-hand props... Someone in MECA might have more knowledgeable info for you.

(EDITED to add ) I just looked at the O&R60 thread lower down this forum. I don't know your adjustamatic timer, but if it generally resembles the one on the O&R 60 in the images there, your timer may be mounted "upside down"?? Don't know if that's even possible, but it might cause the spark-point bias to be backwards, if that's involved.
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Postby walt » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:02 pm

I don't think they made a sideport .33 or .29.
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Postby loucrane » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:04 pm

Thanks, Walt,

As I said, I don't know O&R engines well. I have some old model engine books that will likely confirm your info. Probably shoulda checked there.
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Postby walt » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:08 pm

I'm just depending on a poor memory and a little knowledge. Bad combo when we're discussing old engines.
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Running of O&R 33

Postby jerry1927 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:37 am

Thanks, Guys,
All 29s & 33s are FRV and can be equipped with either the original or AJM timer. (The earliest 19s & 23s did not use roller bearings nor did the smaller conversion kits.) I have many and varied O&Rs, including several inverted SPs and RVs. It has been many years since I ran any of them, excepting the new 33.
When I get through setting up and running my 1949 Bunch .45 (for selling to Dan Bunch's 2nd cousin, Gene; it has the 1/4-32 spark plug,) I plan to work with the 33. I suspect I'll need to enlarge the timer slot in the c'shaft bearing to permit an adequate timer setting, though I hate to do so. After all, I consider ALL my O&Rs to be desireable collector's items (at least to me.)
After much contact with knowledgable modelers, I've settled on fueling my old runners with FHS's 3 to 1 blend of glow fuel, the special that uses equal parts of castor and their propietary synthetic. (Of course, none of my plastic tanks can stand up to such fuels.) It will permit the engines to run somewhat cooler than with gasoline without over-stressing them or increasing their wear rate. I have no intention of running any of them for competition; I just wanna have fun!
Jerry
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Bunch/Air-O .45

Postby jerry1927 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:37 am

An update, guys:

In case I failed to post info on my attempts to run the 1949 Bunch/Air-O, I've not been consistantly successful. I got it to run several times but with modest output; even that operation became more difficult each time I tried. I'm using FHS' special glow fuel, described in an earlier note.

I've fiddled with the spark advance and prop size but the best it has run has been at about 6,000 rpm, quite unsatisfactory for an almost-new .45.

As soon as I heal up from my recent surgery, I'll get back to the O&R .33 and the Bunch and report when I have useful information.

Hang in there!

Jerry
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Postby walt » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:29 pm

Many years ago, a friend had a High Speed Torpedo. I think that's correct. Anyway, it would start easily and run steady, but wouldn't rev up like we thought it should. Finally figured out that it was running backwards! Don't remember what we did to make it run correctly, but it finally did. Still wasn't a real powerhouse.

Thanx for the update. Hope you're well and fit soon.
Walt
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O&R timer

Postby max hansen » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:24 pm

I found a instruction sheet that came with the Adjustomatic timers . Step #9 is to set the point clearance by drawing a strip of cellophane between the points . You also should use the cellophane to clean them & nothing else . Easy to set clearance by loosening the screw that is in the slotted hole & moving the housing. Max H. :)
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O&.33

Postby max hansen » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:10 pm

I checked with my hobby shop , motor cycle & chain saw combination operator & he said that too much point clearance will advance the timing so that may be your problem with the kicking back . Max H. :)
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O&R 33

Postby jerry1927 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:51 am

Thanks, Guys, for all your help.
I am now sure of the problem and have posted a request for a new crankshaft for my misbehaving .33. Mine is a glow shaft with a "home-built" cam, slightly off location. I may need to regrind it but am reluctant because of my limited facilities and skills.
Jerry
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Shafted .33

Postby max hansen » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:48 pm

Jerry , A party just listed some O&R front housings & cranks on eBay . Ck out # 250358161764 , Might be what you are looking for . MAX H. :D
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O&R .33

Postby jerry1927 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:37 am

Max,
Many thanks for your alert about eBay. I've looked it up and made a bid. Considering all the Ohlssons and parts I have, I'd consider making an offer for all his O&R stuff but they are available one-at-a-time, only. They are my favorites of old sparkers.
Jerry
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