what an engine collection should have

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what an engine collection should have

Postby spacebug.049 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:24 pm

I started collecting engines maybe 6 months ago and am still trying to get more engines. What engines should every engine collection have? What are the good ones? And not just 1/2A but all of the sizes.
Hunter
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Postby Jim » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:38 pm

There are far too many to try to collect en masse without specialising.

You'd be better to choose a type or size range .. refine it down as to whether you want ignition, glow or diesel ... then to specifics.

I did that 40 years ago to collect engines in the .51 to .65 cu. in group ... ignition or glow - but nothing R/C. It took me about ten years to put together an eclectic collection of some six dozen engines inclusive of some very rare and desirable specimens. If I had them now I could make a small fortune.... wonder what an unrun Yellowjacket would go for now .. or a Bungay .. or Hassad Custom ... or tenfin Dooling ... etc.... sigh.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:56 pm

I really want to collect the 1/2As but I also have big ones like a Hurleman Aristocrat 60. Thats why I said all sizes but for now the 1/2As are good.
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Postby chiefss » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Get a copy of Tim Dannels' American Model Engine Encyclopedia and see what there is out there and you will see there is no way you can collect every brand of engine. This doesn't even include foreign makes.

I have over 500 engines and that's just a drop in the bucket of what I could have if I went nuts. I collect OS 4 cycles and that means a large number and very expensive. Just the first model OSFS60 was made in 5 variations and the first is for sale on ebay right now and its up to $546.00.

I also have several M&M engines made by Clayton Merry in Seattle Washington in the late 30's. You can see one of mine in Tim's book. It's the little piston valve 19. It's one of nine S/N X-3. I was offered $3500 for it. I also have an M&M 6 cylinder one of a kind appraised at 5 to 10 thousand. I could never afford them but they were given to my dad by Clayton and I inherited them. One I bought on ebay for $200 but no one knew what it was and I got it dirt cheap.

Just Ohlsson's could keep you busy for a lifetime trying to get all the versions. Collecting pre-war engines has almost become cost prohibitive these days. Check the prices in Anderson's.

Post war engine collecting has become the new thing. There are loads of them and the prices are still reasonable (compared to old ignition engines)
Just the Cox lines will keep you busy and the price range for them goes from a couple bucks for a Babe Bee 049 to several hundred bucks for an RR-1 or a Special 15 MkII.

Good ones?? OK try a Morton M-5. Everyone should have a Brown Junior, at least one Ohlsson, A Baby Cyclone and Super Cyclone, Forster 99, an Aero35, and an Anderson. That's just a drop in the bucket and it's just an opinion.

Stick with 1/2A's. Pick up ignition types when you can and other older glow engines. Anderson's even has a little blurb about 1/2A's being the up and coming collectibles now. You can spent the rest of your ,life trying to get them all and spend a fortune doing it.

Ted Enticknap who just passed away had hundreds if not 1000's of engines worth tens of thousands of dollars. They are being sold on ebay now and they will show you what old engines are bringing these days.
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Postby Jim Thomerson » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:46 pm

There is a Howler on ebaY. That is a must have! 8) Do any of you collectors have a Howler?
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Postby chiefss » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:38 pm

Which Howler? Some are worth big bucks and others not so much. I just looked. Couldn't find a listing for a Howler on eBay.

Do any of you collectors have any M&M's?
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Postby Jim Thomerson » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:39 pm

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewima ... ahowl3.jpg

Not sure if this is the first model. As I understand it, the first model did not have an air intake for the NVA, but the second model had a small air intake. Review at the time characterized the Howler as extremely loud and powerful. What is odd is that the Howler used subpiston induction for all its air intake.
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Postby Frank Klenk » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:20 pm

Spacebug

I am in agreement with Jim from Ajax. There are far tooooooo many engines to collect. Unless of course you have unlimited cash and time to do so. Specializing is the way to go. Myself I collect Canadian. 1/2A's I think would make an awesome collection. They can be had for a fraction of the cost of say a 60 sparker. Whenever I go to a swap meet or collecto I always come home with some "little" engines.

Frank 8)
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Postby chiefss » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:44 pm

You're right Frank. Also consider one of a kind engines. I have two of them and the odds of me selling either are about zip so someone trying to collect M&M's would never be able to get them. Well for enough money they would.

For a guy starting out 1/2A's is the cheapest way to go and there are millions of them out there.

Cox alone would be a challenge. Leroy made zillions of them from the Babe Bee 049 that are a dime a dozen to the RR-1 which would relatively expensive but obtainable. Compared to other hard to find engines an RR-1 is still within most guys budgets.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:21 pm

chiefss wrote:I have over 500 engines and that's just a drop in the bucket of what I could have if I went nuts.


Try to always show proof of purchase too, you don't want to be walking around with 500 engines unable to show where they originated. Receipts are a protection and certainly a good idea all the way around. I know I have over 200 engines and have a receipt for every one of them, for insurance purposes.
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Postby chiefss » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:58 pm

It's a little hard to walk around with 500 engines. Guess I should have asked my grandfather for a receipt when he gave my my OK Cub 049X 55 years ago. And I should have demanded a receipt from all the guys who gave me engines or traded for other engines. How about ebay. Never asked for a receipt there. Bought dozens on eBay.

As far as insurance. Just make sure you have a good company. I had a box of engines stolen. My company, Farmers, just wanted a list of what was stolen and prices. As many were over twenty years old I didn't have any proof of price so the company said just give an estimate. I did and they paid every cent I claimed. For the current ones, I just gave the retail price from magazines. Now I keep a list for the company and estimated prices. Pictures of the really rare ones.

I wonder just how many collectors like Clarence Lee, Ted Enticknap, George Aldrich, etc, all have reciepts for the thousands of engins they have. How many guys keep their receipts for engines they buy today? Not many, I bet
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Postby Frank Klenk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:22 pm

10% does make a good point about keeping/having receipts. The problem is one does not always get a receipt. You buy an engine at a swap meet or inherit one, and of course no receipt. Due diligence now is up to the owner. That said there are some very good engine collector software programs out there to help keep track of a collection. The one I use allows me to enter photos, descriptions, date purchased, price paid and value etc. This I keep in a safe place for future reference. If you have a collection regardless of size I think this is a must. How do you guys keep track of what you have?? 8)
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Postby chiefss » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:45 pm

Like I said, I keep a list of the valuable ones or ones that have special meaning to me and pictures of the very valuable ones. Those lists and pictures are locked in a fireproof safe along with impotant papers and such. My 6 cylinder M&M has been appraised at between 5 and 10 thousand dollars. That one is locked up and seldom taken out. All my M&M's are all locked up. Getting a receipt for any of them would be a tad difficult as they were made for my dad back in the late 30's and as gifts, never had a receipt. The run of the mill engines I don't worry too much about.

Another thing about receipts for insurance purposes. And engine that cost $3.95 or $24.95 back in the 60's would be worth a lot more in today's dollars. That receipt wouldn't be of much use in an insurance claim.

All reciept would really be good for is if someone (I wouldn't know who) accused you of stealing from someone or a store like, say, Hobby Shack.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:11 pm

Would you consider the Hurleman Aristocrat 60 rare? How about a Space Bug?
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Postby chiefss » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:47 pm

Depends on which aristocrat. The 60?? Yes rare and very valuable. The 49?? Nope.

Space Bug? Which one? The Junior? No. The '52-'53 original with the large metal tank? New in the Box, yes. Otherwise, no. The later ones?? No.
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Postby propwobble » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:29 pm

There are lots of ways to base a collection in addition to maker and type.
For example, a collection could be based on histories or follow a designer who may have worked on numerous makes. One could think about the similarities of a particular technical detail across a group of engines or or try to illustrate the technical differences in a class of engines. Then there could be engines of a particular size or even families of engines. You could even just collect the ones you think look cool so there are a lot of ways to go about collecting and no particular right way. Some of us even use chaos as a modality.

I have to get in the plug for Hurlemans. True, not all the Hurlemans are super rare ( not super common either) but they are very interesting because the back plate (at least on some ) is a press fit which is very unusual, also a bit unusual are the facts that the conrod is a beautiful built up affair made of sheet steel and tubing and the crankshaft is bolted together. Hurlemans metal work was superb.
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